UCCtruths

Interesting to have these two articles posted together... one proclaiming separation of church & state, the other claiming that our faith statements should be the law of the land.
I believe our faith can't help but influence our political views, whether we are aware of it or not. But our political statements should be based on humanitarian arguments, not religious ones. It can be done.
Doubt if Lynn will weigh in on this one.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the statement that this issue is about illegal immigration, not illegal immigrants, but, being involved with it myself, my conclusion is that the core driving force behind the people who are giving this issue its energy is essentially nativist xenophobia. Some, and not a few, are out-and-out racist fascists. They have found a way of expressing their hatred in a way that is publicly acceptable.

They should be called on it, and removed from the debate just as other racists are marginalized and shunned in public debate. Once that happens it will be very easy to come up with a reasonable policy that respects economic realities, human rights and our national heritage of immigration and assimilation.

Alan, the sentence you quoted incorrectly was "The issue isn't about immigrants, the issue is about illegal imigration."

The distinction I am making is one one that Rich Pleva and clan disingenuously mix: imigration vs. illegal imigration - they are not the same.

I looked at it again, and I think I see your complaint. There is a tendency amongst those of us who desire human treatment for illegal immigrants and some sort of rational reform of our policies to "soften" the rhetoric by dropping the term "illegal." Some use the term "undocumented" which I find to be a clumsy locution. My preference is to use the term "economic migrant" because, basically, that is their motivation and not very many of them are true immigrants in the sense of wanting to adopt a new homeland. I feel most of them want to earn a few bucks picking lettuce and then go back where they came from.

I think calling them illegal, while not completely incorrect, is not completely correct either, and is unfair. The immigration and naturalization laws are not part of the criminal statutes, they are part of the regulatory statutes, so violations do not make one a "criminal". However, the term "illegal" tends to paint economic migrants as criminals, and they are not. Droping the term, even if it has some justification, will promote clearer thinking.

Clear thinking is indeed needed on this issue. As one of the current presidential hopefuls said, it takes seven years to "wait in line" to come here just to pick some lettuce. Under those circumstances, they just come, and the lettuce growers aren't in any position to refuse them a job.

The reason this situation exists is because the hard-core, nativist xenophobes need someone to bully, and they have found a socially acceptable target.

I agree that xenophobes have latched on to an issue that originally flared up over national security - but that doesn't mean that it isn't a legitimate issue. Like I mentioned in my post, it's hardly an issue in Ohio but I do recognize the need to have a fair, equitable and humane system in place.

"hard-core, nativist xenophobes need someone to bully, and they have found a socially acceptable target"???
Talk about using language to isolate, denigrate, and therefore dismiss as having noting good to say. Seems to me there is more than one bully in the argument.

I agree with ucctruths that this is a legitimate issue (however irrelevant in Ohio) and that their are many legitimate and humane positions that may be taken on it... ranging from stricter enforcement to a much more permissive policy.

I do not characterize those who advocate a more probationary policy as necessarily being "hard-core nativist, xenophobes". However, as ucctruths has noted, such people have latched onto the issue, and, in my opinion, this is where most of the sustained momentum on the issue comes from. It is also the reason progress is not made on a humane and realistic policy.

Anyone who has followed the issue and interacted with the “hard core” activists will easily see that they are inhuman extremists. You may verify this by listening to Frank Jorge of the Antelope Valley Independent Minutemen encourage political assassinations at a "Voice of the People" rally in support of Hazelton, PA's inhuman and discriminatory anti-immigration law.

http://aclupa.blogspot.com/2007/09/voice-of-which-people.html